Thursday, December 06, 2007

Minimum wage at 1500€

The socialist party in France is trying to push the minimum wage to 1500€ per month. Currently it stands at around 1200€. Their reason being that the current salary is not sufficient for a family to cover the inflated living expenses. Of course every minimum wage workers welcome this reform.

When I first arrived in France I was shocked on how little people in this country earn. Currently, students who have master degree have entry salary at around 1500€, depending on city and sector where they work. Then, I discovered that a cleaning lady is earning 300€ less than someone who is a degree holder. Salary climbs like a snail, and don't think about year end bonuses, they are basically non existence. Companies couldn't afford to give employees other benefits, as when they pay an employee 1500€, they are paying around the same amount to the government as taxes.

Minimum wage increases = cost of business increases = prices increase = less opportunity for salary increase = earn the same salary with higher inflation.

At one point, I asked myself whether I should just hide my education level and go look for a minimum wage job. This kind of job won't care if I speak or write perfect French. What's the point to study 5 more years then earn 300€ more?

23 comments:

  1. BE,
    So kesian lah.
    Jamy

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  2. I agree, I was shocked by how little people made when I first came here too. I mean, half the population makes less than 1500€ and only 10% makes more than 3000€.

    The average woman makes 17,500€ and the average man 19,000€! That's nothing - I was making that much which I was working during my university days!

    But I agree - if they raise the minimum wage, it's only going to raise the cost of living here, so any extra earnings will be negated because life will just cost more. What they really needs to do is get rid of some of the social charges. But the gov is so much in deficit already that they need that money. I for one don't pity M. Sarkozy!

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  3. Very sad, I make more than that a month just doing blogging one to two hours a day. It is so true that to help the poor give them the tools to fish not the fish, they will never know how to fish if you give them fish.

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  4. i am really surprise... students with masters earning 1500? i wonder how do these ppl go for holiday then?

    oh oh... currency... currency rate...

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  5. casper3:58 PM

    Hi BeeEan,

    Just had a quick browse and saw this one. This is interesting....

    So if I go to France and work in McDonald, I will get EUR1500 a month soon? Hah.. And free burger somemore...

    Kayatan..isn't that better thab blogging :-) >

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  6. Hmmm... Casper, if you think so, I won't argue because you are the one who inspired to blog and I am always thankful for your direction. Standing for 8 hours a day as compare to writing 1 hour a day, hmmm..., might be you have a bit more drink tonight, did you ? :). Nice seeing you in cyber space again, kawan :).

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  7. It was just a suggestion from the party socialist and I don't think the current right wing government will let it happen.

    So casper, no you won't earn that much in McDonald. They take a lot of part time workers and pay by hours. If you are a full time staff you will earn minimum wage of 1200€.

    zewt, if both couple work, they will get 3000€. They can still enjoy vacation since their currency is very strong in other countries. Besides they don't have to save for retirement, medical expenses, children education...supposedly these are all taken care of.

    Jamy,
    Blogging is not without risk. See how 5xmom income decreases due to the page rank issue. It's not a stable income. Besides, poor people usually don't have internet, how are they going to earn money online. One thing I appreciate about this society is that old people are well taking care of. You don't see 80 years old man working in Walmart welcoming people or selling smoothies like in US. Most of the time you see the seniors here enjoy their vacation here and there. They are damn rich. Young people are poor in this country.

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  8. BE,

    That is because social security system cannot last : "Most of the time you see the seniors here enjoy their vacation here and there.". The fund will dry out.

    When these young people grow old ,they will not be able to live the same kind of life the present old people do. It is like a pyramid scheme where if you keep drawing, it will be empty one of these days.

    It is because these people do not plan well when they are young : "You don't see 80 years old man working in Walmart welcoming people or selling smoothies like in US." Look at Doris's in-law, and many of my friends' parents, they work hard, save hard and they are living a very comfortable life now when they are older. Doris' in law go holiday here and there (even China) and just renting their land for bill board display is more than enough to have international holidays at least 3 times annually. I don't think many old people in France can do that. Haven't you heard that a lot of old people (in France) died in the heart wave one of the summers because they could not afford AC ? I think we discussed about that issue in one of the Malaysian forum a few years ago, right ?

    All business comes with risk and that is why planing and adapt to changes are important. You don't worry about 5xmom, she will come back stronger than before, trust me. That woman is smart.

    Young people are the building blocks of the nation. Where would the country be in the next 100 years if the young people are poor and have no resource to bring their country to prosperity when the old people die ? It does not make any sense to me ? Might be you know something I don't know.

    I would rather be poor as an old person than to see my son and his next generation be poor and suffer. My mom also said it does not matter if she does not eat well, does not cloth well but as long as we have a better life, she is happy. Same goes with my philosophy . I would rather work hard for JJ and let him not to be poor than me being rich when I retire. I don't think I can retire too comfortably if I see my son being poor and earn only $1500, sigh. Just my thought.

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  9. BE,

    When there is a will, there is a way. Warren Buffet was not born rich 76 years ago, neither was Bill Gates (Gate's parents was not entirely poor but just middle class). I personally think the poorer they are, the more they need to find out where they can get onto the internet because that is where lots of wealth can be acquired.

    There is public facility such as "Library" where they offer free internet.

    In US, there are all kind of non profit organizations where they give poor people fishing net to catch fish than give them fish. But whether they use it or not, that is another story, sigh.

    Blog is a viable business, it all depend on how you do it. Everyone can create a blog, the barrier of entry is practically zero, but not all people who has blog can make money from it. It is like every business under the sun. All people can sell umbrella but it does not mean all people who sell umbrella make profit :):). The secret on the person who sell umbrella makes profit vs those who does not make profit applies to blogging too :).

    Js

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  10. Jamy,

    I asked my husband the same question that the fund will dry out, but he told me that the government has been talking about it for 20 years yet people are still having their good retirement life. I'm not talking about any individual like Doris's parents in laws who know how to invest (btw how many % of Americans can afford to enjoy this kind of life of having vacation 3 times overseas a year?) but the overall population who don't need to know how to invest to get a normal retirement life. There is no risk that they will lose all their retirement fund at once, like what happens to Enrons employees or for people who invested in the stock market and got burned out when the market crash. The worst could happen is that they will get smaller pension fund than they hope for.

    While my mother sure hope that I can live a better life, I would like my mother to live a carefree life too when she is old. You are from a wealthy family, I don't know whether you can imagine how my mother is scared of being sicked even though she has pension fund and live with her children. She invested too money in the stock market, but not all people are fortunate like you to make a whole load from this monetary system.

    So for you, people who do not plan well when they were younger deserve to work at 80 years old and couldn't afford to have health insurance? How if they worked hard their whole life but just not smart enough to earn smart money? How if they invested in a business but got bankrupt? Like you said every business has risk and there are secret to have a successful business. There are people who got rich from the business and there are people who went into debt.

    During the economic downtown in USA in 2003, an American senior told me that she couldn't afford her vacation that year due to the low interest rate (1%). Her retirement fund suddenly shrunk. At the same year Fabien's grandmothers flew over to visit us. Their retirement fund was not hurt by the low interest rate. They can sleep well without following the financial news.

    In my class we learn that Americans are risk taker and the French are risk averse. The different is when an American takes risk and fail, his life is fucked. When a French tries and fails, he can still live with basic services provided.

    I'm not saying that the French system is better, but they do have their good points. I'm not worried about smart people like you, I'm just concerned about people who are borned not so smart and do nothing wrong but have a miserable life.

    Back to the topic of this post. :-)
    The average population is earning 1500 euros per month according to Samantha's statistic, but I still see wealthy people every where with big houses and people are shopping like crazy for Christmas. Overall commercial sales have been increasing steadily. Maybe I'm just the only feeling poor. :-)

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  11. BE,
    "You are from a wealthy family".No, I was not born rich. My dad family was so poor that they nearly need to sell him to buy rice. When he came to kuching, he went on a sail boat without any money. He worked 3 years without any wages just food and 3 t-shirts and pants to exchange to go to Kuching, that was how poor he was. My mom lagi worst, she was literally sold to work as a child worker for the richet family. While we were young, we did not have a whole lot of things but my parents worked very hard and sacrify to send us oversea to study. My dad acquried wealth later part of his life.

    Yes, I hope the fund will be there but I don't think with the influx of immigrants there :"asked my husband the same question that the fund will dry out, but he told me that the government has been talking about it for 20 years yet people are still having their good retirement life."

    "I'm not talking about any individual like Doris's parents in laws who know how to invest (btw how many % of Americans can afford to enjoy this kind of life of having vacation 3 times overseas a year?) but the overall population who don't need to know how to invest to get a normal retirement life". I think there are a lot of well to do seniors in America. I am sure you know I live in Florida, right ? There are a lot of retires here from the North or from Mid West, a lot of them lived in expensive retirement village (somea are apartment, condos, some are 1 story small houses, there are golf courses, swimming pools etc). Some retirees prefer to buy small pot of land and live on mobile home. A lot of retirees have a home in the cold north or mid west and have 1 in Florida. There are 300 million population in US. There are of course some who are poor but from statistics there are more rich older folks than poor. In fact, Doris in laws are ordinary working folks (they are not from super rich family) but they work hard, save had (and that is very common of older generation of Americans, they work very very hard and save hard, it is only this generation,they are not savers). In fact, there are more of Doris in law than the poor.


    "(btw how many % of Americans can afford to enjoy this kind of life of having vacation 3 times overseas a year?)". I believe it is 75%. You can check it from AAA.com. Yes, majority of American's seniors are well prepared for their retirements. With 300 million population, if you have 10% poor, you are talking about a lot of people.

    "There is no risk that they will lose all their retirement fund at once, like what happens to Enrons employees or for people who invested in the stock market and got burned out when the market crash." Enron might not be the only incidence. There are a lot of such incidents if you knew about what happened during the great depression period. Yes,certainly investment comes with risk.

    "The worst could happen is that they will get smaller pension fund than they hope for. " To me the worst if when they don't even invest and stay poor.

    "So for you, people who do not plan well when they were younger deserve to work at 80 years old and couldn't afford to have health insurance? How if they worked hard their whole life but just not smart enough to earn smart money?" I do not believe working hard poor in America and have not yet met one.
    There are all kind of structured investment in America. The thing about a lot of Americans are they spend too much and save too little. A lot of companies do not have a mandatory rule that workers have to put in $ for their retirement, it is up to them. A lot of companies will give employers 3% and they will match up to 7-10% depends on company policies. There are other less risky investment such as term or life insurance. A person does not need to be smart to invest. It is a desire to be rich and willingness to work hard, even for investment here. If a person wanted to invest, they can go to talk to an certified investment advisors (read investment newspapers, magazines, or even web sites). It takes time, energy, affords but how many people are willing to do that than watching TV soap's series. That is why I believe there is no working hard poor in America. No, there is no such thing as having no health insurance for 80's here in the US. Everyone is entitled Medicare when they are 65 and if someone is poor (there is a formula to calculate), they are entitled Medicaid and there are a lot of non profit organization in America that provide assistance to the poor. There are more non profit organization in America than any nation in the world. And that is because there are more wealthy people than anywhere else. When Jessie , my good friend was in school, she was amazed how many scholarship, grants there were here. She spent every little money in her school and so do I. I have never in my life find it there were so many free money floating around. It is a matter of research and finding.

    "I'm not worried about smart people like you, I'm just concerned about people who are borned not so smart and do nothing wrong but have a miserable life." If I am to complaint about life being fair or unfair, I think I have the most reasons to do so. I was born with so many defects, I had a hole in my heart, a heart that has a slow pacers and a pair of feet that do not work very well. When I was growing up, I had to stay in bed a lot of time sick because I did not have a lot of energy like a lot of my friends. I got fainted a lot and I could not remembered a lot of things because there are not enough oxygen gone to my brain. I took me 3 times more effort than my siblings. If there is any vocabulary to describe me, it is not smart, it is hard working.

    When I first came to America, my first work was filing medical record in a hospital. I could not find a job related to IT. But, it was ok with me even though it was a 8 hours standing job. I often came home with paper cuts on my hands, palms and fingers. My strategy was to get foot into the company, whether is filing clerk or system analyst. I was working for a temp agency. Because I was so hard working, the department manager was so impressed to me, she told the temp agency that they should sent me to any dept in the hospital that need temporary clerk or admin kind of position. Then they send me to insurance billing department. From then I met the IT manager and then I got my job as a system analyst before I quit my job when my son was 8 months old.

    Then I started research what I can do while I was at home. One thing lead to another. When I graduate, I will have a very flexi hour job and I can invest more times with my blogging business. With my blogging business, at the moment I know only how to write for advertising company but I believe it is only the tips on the iceberg. I believe there are lots of online business waiting for me to explore when I got sometimes. I already helped at least 3 women in my church to earn viable part time income of $400-$500 a month just writing paid posts. With my gold investment, it was not a smart investment, it was a hard working investment. The amount of hours I spend on reading was not an easy task. I can say all the things that I invest on making money is result from long hours of hard work. It is by no mean a smart kind of work. If I am really smart, I probably is a Scientist or a Ph.D holder or something like that. No, mine is all a desire to be rich, determination and hard work. That are all the ingredients that make of my success and plenty of money. The one thing I believe very strongly is willingness to help others to be successful and not being selfish. I think one of the reasons I have so many friends who are so willing to help me is also because I am very willing to help others. Jesie often told me there are more selfish people in this world than people who want to help. She said it is those who go extra length to help are the successful one because success is infectious.

    I am sorry to hear that you feel like that, sigh. "Maybe I'm just the only feeling poor. :-)"

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  12. BE,

    I have to add that on this sentence "That are all the ingredients that make of my success and plenty of money" and the other very important factor is environment. In my case, the support of my husband and the capitalist environment that America provides. I do not think I can achieve that kind of success within such a short time in a socialist country like France.

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  13. BE, I hope you do not think I argue for the sake of argument. I am not.

    I am very passionate about spreading the gospel of anti-socialism. I am so passionate about telling people communism , socialism are liars and liars. People need to wake up.

    In fact, China now being one of the super powers has a lot of impact on how people view capitalism and communism.

    In my 2cents, there is only one kind of system that works on human sinful nature society : capitalism.

    Communism and socialism are idealist but they will not work in society that is made up of human because we all want to take care of ourselves first, than our families.

    What you wrote about the Miss Universe is a very correct observation. If China is not so strong now, we will never see a Chinese beauty in Miss Universe. My dad was very right, he predicted he will see a Miss Universe in his life time when he read Teng Siew Bing's sentence that no matter white cat, black cat as long as they can catch mice, they are good cat. That sentence is a symbol that China has started the first step to join their capitalist counterpart - America and abadon his abang adik : Russia.

    Zewt in my Miss universe post commented it is because China has big population and the probability is higher in finding a beautiful girl. I feel very sad of what Zewt statement. I am not angry with him but I am sad that the younger generation nowaday are so naive about economy and power. If you think population number determine Ms universe? Think of Indonesia ? Indonesia is the world's fourth most populous country. I don't think you will see an Indonesian beauty in Miss World too soon the way the country is going.

    I am not here to argue is France has better system or America, my point is socialism will make you poor than rich. Whether you are France or America, the day you embrace socialism , the day your next generation is going to eat ikan bilis.

    I just finished one of the world most renoun marketer Seth Godin's book about Small is the new big. In his book, he stated that most Americans business profit come from small businesses. Without capitalist system that we have here in the US, how on the earth can small business take off ? You need to have a good soil to germinate seeds. Even if you are super smart and intelligent,without a support system that nurture entrepreneurship , you might not get where an average Joe in American might achieve because the average Joe in America has more resources to get where he want to than the super smart in France does not have.

    When people say about America the land of plenty and bountiful, I have to say I have to admit 101% because it is truly the land of plenty and the sky is your limit. I am sure you experienced too the few years you spend in America, right ?

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  14. Jamy,

    Don't worry, we are just discussing. I used to think like you, that capitalist is the best. I still think so, but with some doubts. For capitalist = money is everything. I don't understand how France practices socialism but now I start to see their points. When I told the French that in Malaysia rich people go to private hospital and poor people go to government hospital, they told me that this is not normal. Medical care is human right and people should have the same access to it. I have never thought it this way. When I talk about minimum wage immediately the French asked me how the American survive with minimum wage. It just makes me think, how these French people so concern about others, and willing to contribute their money to help the others, while me just thinking about myself. For them, the welfare system has fraud and people abuse it, but importance is that it manages to help those in need. Your ultimate goal is to get rich and use your own way to help others, but not everyone wants to get rich, they just want a very basic life.

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  15. Hello Kawan Kayatan and Bee Ean...hah.. I am here to kacau kacau again.

    US Social Security - the stats currently is that currently is estimated that by 2017 the net social security receipt would be less than the amount to be paid out. So, Social security have to dig into its saving (currently all in a hard disk somewhere recording how much the federal government owes the social security. This is not gold, not silver, just paper and IOU. (The China chinese government have tons of these as well)). By 2040, these IOU (assuming the federal goverment can pay using US$ which sitll have reasonable purchasing power), these Social Secuiry backup fund will also dry up. From that point on, the social security entitlement would be reduced to whatever that fund can afford (so if net social security receipt is only 50% of the entitlement, than everyone gets 50% of what the are supposed to get).

    Don't get me wrong, actually, I like the socialist humane approach. They just live on the wrong planet (or wrong plane of existance). Ultimately, the resources is limited, and robbing one to pay for another is reducing the standard of living of the person who is being robbed. Also, the French attitude bread complacency but the world does not stop for them.

    5xmum - well, the main difference between business and employment is that you always have to adapt and change. One door close, another one opens up. I have my fair bit of fun with Google. But one thing that alarms me is that the new globalised world is quite cold and cruel such that the winner will take disproportionate of success. (e.g. maybe googile is only 20% better than Yahoo, but it will take 90% of the total business). This is very different from the world we grew up, one where a hard working corner shop can survive and prosper serving its local market even though Wal Mart does exist somewher else.

    With online commerce, highways, internet, cheap flight, the next 25years is going to be quite bad for the average people (and disproportinately rewarding for the top 1% in their field or so).
    The rule will apply to France and French. Those who want to muddle through will suffer. If the chinese will pay and can pay $10 for a gallon of petrol, that would be the price of petrol, whether the French like it or not. The same applies to flour (spagetti), steak etc.

    So Jamy..I am actually quite worry about the world my kid will grow up in...

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  16. BE,

    I can understand what you say. I live in Australia for many years. Life are much simple and people are much simple there. There are less things there. Here people have so many things, choices etc. When you really sit down and look at life, in fact, we don't need a lot of things to be happy. If you don't have a swimming pool in your own home, you can always go to a public pools or a community pool but having a pool in your home provide some inconvenience like not having to drive out of the home and go to the pool. But because you want the convenience of not having to drive out of the home to the public pool, you need to work extra 2 hours a day to buy a swimming pool's home and all the things that relate to maintain the pool :).

    I do believe basically all human are the same if put them in the same environment with all constant variables. They will like the same thing. Bring the French here to the US to live for a few months , I am sure many of them would like to have the resources they do not have back home. But, if they have not come here, might be they do not know what it is about.

    I think their socialist culture do not promote the importance of being rich so that is how they think :"but not everyone wants to get rich, they just want a very basic life." but America otherwise.

    Not all people who want to be rich live a luxury life. If you look at a lot of wealthy America (I mean their rich is not by sudden rich but work hard and acquire it long term, most of them live pretty simple life, the ultimate eg is Warren Buffet, he lives in the same house since he got married). If you look at my FIL and my spouse, you never have thought that they have so much inheritance. When I met him, he was driving a 14 years old 2 door cars and live in a small studio apartment. My FIL still wore the clothes he bought 10 years ago. They are neither not stingy in any mean. The money my FIL donated each year to charity is more than 3 engineers annual salary and he lives in a very old small house :).

    Malaysia health care follow British style of universal health care, that is everyone can get health care free. But, as you probably know that the public health care sucks because they are managed by a bunch of inefficient government baccalaureates. I think M. private company CEOs studied American's private insurance system and knew this kind of system work, so now even Malaysians are buying private insurance. Zewt though like socialist country like Australia wrote in one of his blog entry that everyone should buy private insurance.

    In fact, if you look at it , when I worked in Australia, they took out about 12% of my paid for medicare (so I have universal health care) but here in the US, with 4-5% I can find a very good private health insurance that offer a better health care than Aust's universal health care I got.

    When I was in Aust, I need a surgery and you knew I got an internet , I was pissed cos he was so inexperience. Here in the US, I have the best cardiac surgoen who graduated from Duke's uni who worked in Myoclinics for many years. If I have been left behind in Malaysia, I guess I probably had died because when I inquired there is a waiting list of at least 18 months for my heart surgery in Jantung hospital and if I have to do it in private hospital , it was around RM$1.2 million with pacemaker and all the work involved.

    I think many Americans work so hard not necessary for $, I think a lot of times the society is so success driven that when you are in that kind of environment, you always be influenced.

    I am busy all the times and often time I sit down and wonder why am I work so hard. But, I think if I don't work so hard, I will get sakit, you know. If we meet one of these days, you would not believe how simple I live, and you will not find a single jewelry in my hand or anywhere except probably some fake jewelries. I live in a very old small home. Recently we went out looking for a bigger and new home because my mom might want to come stay with me. I realize wow, there are so many beautiful and big homes out there. You see I have been so busy making $, I did not realize I probably should use some of the money I earn to buy things :):).

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  17. How come casper comment suddenly appear, I did not see it.
    Casper, don't worry, take one day at a time lah :).

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  18. casper,
    Haha you know those French in my social circle don't think that they are being robbed. They actually agree they should pay taxes to help those in need. :-)

    Jamy,
    A friend once said that if you have never used the money, it is still not yours. :-)

    Well, Fabien came to US and worked for several years. While he thinks that US can provide better career development, France provides better family life and education. He said money is not everything that's why he chose to go back to France. He has never regretted it.

    About the medical care, I don't understand why when you are so happy about it, other ladies in CHL sometimes whine about how expensive the medical cost is and how they sometimes couldn't afford it.

    Yes I agreed that US is a success driven society. How much you worth in the society is how much money you have.

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  19. casper10:33 PM

    Hi Bee Ean,

    "I friend once said that if you have never used the money, it is not yours"... I felt the same and the person who said it could had been me ...haha !

    Those French in your social circle likely to be those who benefit from the system, probably not those higher earner who really pay the price. For anyone earning EUR1500, they are getting a lot out of the system and yet paying relatively little. Also, they probably think all these are guaranteed and is a right (and hence barricade the road is justifable). I suppose back then it were the first and 2nd estate would wanted the status quo, but now it is the 3rd estate who want the status quo (job security etc funded by a socialist instituition, regardless of consequences to the next next generation) :-)

    Also, I think few actually knows how much of these tax money were wasted and how little effect it actually goes in permanently improving the life of the poor.

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  20. casper,

    People in my circle are mostly professional, they earn more than 1500 as they have been working for several years. As far as I know, they don't get any social benefits from the government beside the medical care like everybody else. You might not believe it, but some French do feel ashame if they have to depend on the government. I don't know how much money has been wasted, but I'm glad I paid only 200 euros for my one year school fee. At the end, you do see students getting help (lodging, food, tuition fees). I didn't get any money from the unemployed agency as you have to contribute at least 6 months to the system before you can qualify for help.

    In fact, I think the economic immigrants are sucking more money from the system then the French. I felt pissed that the government have to pay for housing for women who are here illegally but managed to have a kid here. Their kids get to go to school for free and enjoy all the social benefits even though they have not contributed a single cent to the system. People blame the French for not welcoming the immigrants, but the immigrants are actually abusing the system. I once show an African woman protesting on the TV, saying that it was pay back time for the French as the French exploited the African natural resources century ago. So, it was totally normal that they (illegal immigrants) come here and the government has to take care of them.

    I once support Sarkozy for the selective immigration policy.

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  21. BE,

    Might be because I worked and lived in other country like Australia for many years and comparatively, it is so much cheaper here : "About the medical care, I don't understand why when you are so happy about it, other ladies in CHL sometimes whine about how expensive the medical cost is and how they sometimes couldn't afford it." For the kind of $ I spend and the quality I get, I personally believe it is a whole lot worth.

    Even in Canada, they have so call free health care, but a lot of Canadian crossed boarder here to have their health care cos a lot of medical cases, time is muscle. Just a matter of a few weeks, it mean life and death, ie benign or malignant.

    The way we see things will change in different stages of life, Fabian might see it not important now but later on he might change when child(ren) play an important factor of where you want to live : "He said money is not everything that's why he chose to go back to France. He has never regretted it."

    My 2cents is you have lived in 2 systems, I am sure you will compare time to time; and at times it might post some challenges for you in the future. For Fabien, his case is very different, he is local and is brought up in that system, but you are not and you have no immediate family so it is entirely different between you and him. But, I agree with him that money is not the main thing in life but money can be very useful in time.

    I don't agree with that : "A friend once said that if you have never used the money, it is still not yours. :-)". I believe as long as it is mine, it is mine. I have the freedom on the time, method of how I mobilize it :). eg. If I have $, I can go back to Kuching today as long as I have the money I have the mean to get a ticket to fly back. How could the money is not mine when I don't use it ? It is a matter of when I want to use it . I am not enslave to money but money give me a certain amount of freedom.

    I don't know lah, talking to you about this issue is like summer worms talking to winter ice, they are from different world. To me, it does not really matter if you see it in your way and I am not trying to convince you to see my way but I just tell it as what I see and experience. If you are happy in a socialist country than I am happy for you. I think Casper and I see what is coming and probably already here , that is why in this area we see eye to eye.

    I just want to use whatever capacity I have to spread the anti-socialism gospel, either in my blog or helping women around the world to be business minded so they are empowered because I see $ is important in many aspects of life, not all but many.

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  22. casper12:13 PM

    Hi Bee Ean,

    The issue with Western european socialism is rights without obligation, as you have clearly observed. Is is interesting to know that French professional think that way (I ask a Swedish friend and they is same sort of altruism) and also the Finnish (but not the American of course).

    I suppose a more valid question is if their is a system where averyone must pay 25% tax and then they can 'topup' whatever they want and that will be ring fenced into the social security system, how many will go for it. (Talk is cheap as they have little choice). We also know that Ms Royale minimized her property taxes in a very interesting way.

    "A friend once said that if you have never used the money, it is still not yours. :-)".

    Jamy.. I think I said that and it is not true that if you have the money you can go to Kuching tomorrow and spend as you please. To start, you need a storm to block the airport. Second, the bank you bank in might go burst and it is gone. 3rd, if you draw cash, the money might be removed from you on your way out of the bank. 4th - the governmetn may introduce a wealth tax and now your bank balance is theirs.

    Buddism said the property are owned by the '5 houses' - thief, government, fire, water and bad children. So..until you spend it, it may not be yours...









    A friend once said that if you have never used the money, it is still not yours. :-)".

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  23. Jamy,

    You spelled it right. There is nothing here for me except Fabien. I'm comparing the systems all the times and I'm still pro-capitalism. I'm just sharing what I observed and why people here are actually supporting their systems.

    casper,

    Yeah I agreed the French actually have no choice. :-) If they have a choice things might be different today.

    BTW, it was not from you I heard about the philosophy about money. One of my aunt's friend told her that every times she goes traveling, she would buy herself a pair of shoes to transform the money to something she could really use. Like you said, you can wear the shoes but you can't wear the money.

    Wow I didn't know Buddhism has this philosophy. Buddha knew the socialist government already during his time? :-))))

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